Curse

Eadwyn Mirwen · Jul 18, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Hi.

I dont know if this was suggested before. So:

As everybody knows, you can hold only 100k on a char at a time. This makes it difficult for traders above 100k. How about this:

You are allowed to hold 1000k for like 5 minutes. After that 900k go back to storage. If you have more than 1000k in storage after that, then all money above 1000k in storage will be deleted. This should be maybe enough to avoid abuse.

What do you think?

Yours,
Eadwyn

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I feel the only sure way to avoid monetary abuse and fix the economics of this game is to eliminate gold trading altogether except as an in-guild option only. That's what trading is supposed to be about anyway - you give one person an item you have and they want, and they give you an item they have that you want in exchange. Paying gold for an item is not trading - it's shopping. No one should be able to give another player any amount of gold for any reason unless they are in the same guild.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Eadwyn Mirwen · Jul 18, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

So you want to go back to the Stoneage? Do you know the problems that are there in a society without money?

Anyway. If you want to call it shopping then shopping it is. Let us stay on the main topic please and not go to the topic "Is GW better without money?"

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I didn't say eliminate money - just the ability to exchange it between players who are not in the same guild. The entire monetary situation would otherwise be unchanged - you would still pay to have weapons and armor crafted and customized. You would still pay to buy items at traders and merchants (and get paid for selling items). And, again, members of the same guild could exchange money as it currently can be done now so that they may lend each other a helping hand as necessary. This would cut down on farming and eliminate the need for people to horde gold as it is now.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

johnnylange · Jul 18, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I feel the only sure way to avoid monetary abuse and fix the economics of this game is to eliminate gold trading altogether except as an in-guild option only. That's what trading is supposed to be about anyway - you give one person an item you have and they want, and they give you an item they have that you want in exchange. Paying gold for an item is not trading - it's shopping. No one should be able to give another player any amount of gold for any reason unless they are in the same guild.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

I hope they never bring this in force! Anyone that played D2 long enough knows how trading was...money was worthless pretty much and trading items for items was such a huge hassle it wasn't even worth it! You could spend hours trying to get the item you wanted and never get it. Plus, there is much more abuse with this system, since its hard to know if trading this item for that item is worth it. Buying items is so much easier!

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Hi Johnny, thanks for the input. GW is the first MMO type game I have played, so can't speak for the failings (or successes) of the others. Certainly buying items is much easier than trying to trade a blue drop for a purple or gold drop, but how can trading one item for another be any more abused than trading a set amount of gold for an item - isn't it hard to know if that item is worth it for either method? Plus, it seems to be just as much of a hassle to get good items by exploring the game world, so why should it be easier to get them when one is not playing the game as intended?

The way I see it, GW should be played (and was intended to be played) in a linear fashion by completing quests and missions until you finish the game, then hang out in the arenas until the next chapter comes out. A player should be rewarded for playing the game through to the end and not taking the easy way out with a shopping binge. It's a little frustrating to put the time in and still not come away with the same amount of high quality items a bot farmer or binger have for doing less.

My idea for adjusting this part of the overall trading system is just one step in a larger fix for the economics of the game. Eadwyn's request should not be necessary to begin with, as it should not be necessary for any item to be worth more than the gold limits imposed by the system. We shouldn't have to rely on player trades to get good items - we should be able to complete stages of the game, then be rewarded with better drops and NPC's from which to buy these items the further along we go.

By eliminating gold exchanges between players, steadily increasing the value and amount of drops the closer to the end-game a player gets, and imposing character level limits for areas and items in the game, should decrease the amount of farming for profit that goes on and keep the game in balance (no more Drokners in Ascalon Arena). If you know that you will get the item you wanted by completing the Nolani mission, wouldn't you just go finish the mission instead of trying to buy the item as soon as you get to Ascalon City? And if one wasn't able to pay a gold sum for a gold drop some farmer is selling, but only be able to trade an item, there goes the incentive for all farmers to hang out looking for new arrivals in Post to add to their coiffers.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

noblepaladin · Jul 18, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

100k gold should be enough to buy any item, however, the market has become rapidly inflated. If the game was released with the current patch, where farming and item drops have already been nerfed, then people would not be able to mass up large amounts of gold and no item would be worth more than 100k.

However, in the first few months people were able to make 50-60k gold an hour and became millionaires very quickly, so they didn't care about spending more than 100k on a cool looking item.

Ba Ne · Jul 18, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I feel the only sure way to avoid monetary abuse and fix the economics of this game is to eliminate gold trading altogether except as an in-guild option only. That's what trading is supposed to be about anyway - you give one person an item you have and they want, and they give you an item they have that you want in exchange. Paying gold for an item is not trading - it's shopping. No one should be able to give another player any amount of gold for any reason unless they are in the same guild.

No thanks. You can already spend an eternity trying to sell something because it takes time to find someone who wants to buy what you have. Remove gold between players and make them try to find someone who wants what they have but also has something they want in return? Haw! You just doubled, tripled, quadrupled the amount of time needed to make a trade.

Gold is the grease. Everyone looking to buy has it and everyone looking to sell wants it. Without it the player-to-player economy would grind to a halt.

EDIT: As for the OP... (heh)

Increasing the amount of gold you can carry and trade at once would be a temporary fix to the larger problem which is that some items cost more than 100k. Items costing more than players can carry at one time would seem to be indicitive that something is wrong with the economy, not that players need to be able to carry more money.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 18, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

No one should be able to give another player any amount of gold for any reason unless they are in the same guild.

WTS: Gold Awesome War Hammer of AzzWhoopin, damage +15% while health above 50%, +1 to axe mastery, +50 health +5 Armor - will sell for 2 cows and a chicken - whisper me!

*eyeroll*

Drakron · Jul 18, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Yep.

I dont want to see charr carvings becaming the new coin since that is what would happen, players would simply adopt a replacement for gold.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

No thanks. You can already spend an eternity trying to sell something because it takes time to find someone who wants to buy what you have.

Uhh ... sell it to an NPC? Is that such a novel concept?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

Remove gold between players and make them try to find someone who wants what they have but also has something they want in return? Haw! You just doubled, tripled, quadrupled the amount of time needed to make a trade.

Again, uhh ... sell it to an NPC, then buy what you want from same or different NPC elsewhere in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

Gold is the grease. Everyone looking to buy has it and everyone looking to sell wants it. Without it the player-to-player economy would grind to a halt.

I think you are wrong on this point. First of all, eliminating gold exchange between players without any other change to the system will hardly cause the ecomony to grind to a halt - this is just a completely false notion. However, couple that with some other changes to item drop rates and values, NPC inventory, and level requirements for items and areas, and what you will do is bring down the inflation running rampant in the game.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Damon Windwalker · Jul 18, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Uhh ... sell it to an NPC? Is that such a novel concept?

Again, uhh ... sell it to an NPC, then buy what you want from same or different NPC elsewhere in the game.

If there were a better margin on buying/sellign to the traders. maybe. But when things are so out of whack that they will give me 30 gold and resel for a few plat, no-one is going to do that....

Ba Ne · Jul 18, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Uhh ... sell it to an NPC? Is that such a novel concept?

Again, uhh ... sell it to an NPC, then buy what you want from same or different NPC elsewhere in the game.

Would you sell the perfect sundering bow string you just salvaged to an NPC for 25g? I would hope not. If you would please contact me in-game and I'll buy all of your rare stuff for merchant prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I think you are wrong on this point. First of all, eliminating gold exchange between players without any other change to the system will hardly cause the ecomony to grind to a halt - this is just a completely false notion. However, couple that with some other changes to item drop rates and values, NPC inventory, and level requirements for items and areas, and what you will do is bring down the inflation running rampant in the game.

I believe you're wrong. Try going to McDonalds and paying for your Big Mac with the sunglasses hanging from your shirt. Not gonna happen. They don't want your sunglasses. Try Wendy's next... they don't want your sunglasses either. If you have nothing other people want you will not be able to acquire anything you need. Gold is the grease.

What if all you have are three gold shields with a strength requirement and you really need a sword pommel of defense? Are you going to trade a shield worth 5k+ for a sword pommel worth 500g? If you would, again, please contact me in-game and I'll trade all the junk salvage-fodder items I find daily for your gold items.

Without explaining your "other changes to item drop rates and values, NPC inventory, and level requirements for items and areas" this idea is absolutely pants when discussed alone.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

If there were a better margin on buying/sellign to the traders. maybe. But when things are so out of whack that they will give me 30 gold and resel for a few plat, no-one is going to do that....

Ahh!! But that's EXACTLY why the gold exchange proposal goes hand in hand with the other proposals!!! I certainly don't want gold exchange to be eliminated, then have that the end of the story - that solves nothing. But, having gold exchange eliminated, then making the other adjustments, will make the NPCs a viable option. On top of that, people in the same guild still have the opportunity to pass gold to each other to their heart's content.

Changes to the NPCs would involve a fixed sell/buy price for each item across the entire game world, with the sell to price 50-75% of the buy from price. Using black dye as an example, instead of the outrageously high and changing price it is now, it would be fixed at 1 platinum to buy from the dye trader. If you wish to sell it to the trader, you would receive only 500-750 gold, depending on what the final percentage is determined to be by Anet. If players are worried about the "rareness" of black dye being some symbol of their endless hours of grinding/farming, then make black dye purchaseable only from a trader further along in the game - say one located in Kryta. Therefore, in order for someone to get black dye in the game, they actually have to

*gasp!!!!*

play the game as intended, and complete the missions until they arrive in Kryta.

The percentage mentioned above acts as a gold sink for every single item in the game, which will aid in bringing GW's economy back under control, eliminating any need for farming and putting a kabosh on the scammers. Players should be rewarded for their time spent completing quests and missions - not farming and hording gold to buy whatever they want. In order to do this, drop rates should be increased, as well as the value of the drops, the further along in the game you go. As an example, the very last mission of the game should offer 95% purple or gold drops, and 5% white, blue, or other, that way you are rewarded for reaching that point in the game.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace